Discussion:
Democracy
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W***@kerrysucks.org
2004-08-04 12:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Democracy

At about the time our original 13 states adopted
their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander
Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The
University of Edinborough) had this to say about
"The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000
years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it
simply cannot exist as a permanent form of
government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can
vote themselves generous gifts from the public
treasury.

From that moment on, the majority always votes
for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every
democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal
policy, (which is) always followed by a
dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest
civilizations from the beginning of history, has
been about 200 years. During those 200 years,
these nations always progressed through the
From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University
School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out
some interesting facts concerning the most recent
Presidential election:

Population of counties won by:
Gore=127 million
Bush=143 million

Square miles of land won by:
Gore=580,000
Bush=2,2427,000

States Won By
Gore=19
Bush=29

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties
won by:
Gore=13.2
Bush=2.1

Professor Olson adds:
"In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush won
was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying
citizens of this great country.
Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens
living in government-owned tenements and living
off government welfare..."

Olson believes the U.S. is now somewhere
between the "complacency and "apathy" phase of
Professor Tyler's definition of democracy; with
some 40 percent of the nation's population already
having reached the "governmental dependency"
phase.

Pass this along to help everyone realize just how
much is at stake in this Election Year and that
apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

"Falling down doesn't make us a failure....
staying down does"
Rick Pasotto
2004-08-04 13:10:24 UTC
Permalink
According to snopes.com much of the post is bogus or misleading.

<http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp>

[...]

3. The quote from "Alexander Tyler" is very likely fictitious. His name
was actually "Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser Tytler," and he was a
Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700s
and early 1800s.

[...]


On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:14:23 GMT in triangle.general,
Post by W***@kerrysucks.org
Democracy
At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new
constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history
professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about
"The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.
--
Freedom can be lost as surely tax by tax, regulation by regulation,
as it can be bullet by bullet, missile by missile.
Rick Pasotto ***@niof.net http://www.niof.net
p***@gmail.com
2014-09-06 20:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Practicable {!} (~)Instant *True* Democracy for All the World: **A HOW TO**

(Ranked Ballot, plus "Organized Communications" gives us practicable instant true Democracy for all the world.)

Because it gives an equal chance to all combinations the World of programs {not just parties} Ranked Ballot,"RB", is the only thing simultaneously both most just & most free. Because it always picks the one most in the middle, RB is more top dead center counter-extremist than all the many recent retrenchments combined (crucially, parliaments by picking their Prime Minister by a preferential vote among their members). The "additive" form of RB is voters ranking candidates in order of preference. The first choices are counted, & then, if no one has 50%, the next choices are added in, & so on, until someone finally does.
RB (plus the "instant" part, "Organized Communications" "OC", randomly assigned discussion groups electing reps to higher & higher levels, by means of RB, 'til one group, most exactly in the middle, remains, will allow the entire spectrum, from "sharing the work"(Congress setting a small % whereby each hour's subsequent wage must be raised above the first hour's agreed upon rate, so as to create full employment, & end foot dragging, & create a positive incentive to be as productive as possible, workers knowing there'd always be more work) all the way to replacing public education with having to prove you can read to vote (now that learning is universally recognized). For those with fear of secret code & remote control, the larger the groups the fewer the levels needed. RB will give us Practicable Instant *True* Democracy for All the World, All Powers to Their Lowest Appropriate Level, An Ecological Politics, A PERFECT MARRIAGE OF Rich& Poor, Left & Right, FREEDOM & JUSTICE, Tradition& Modernity, Red, Black & White, Woman& Man, Palestinian& Jew, A Head for the Headless Beast, A Middle Way& even a Real Solution for Bleeding Syria, Ukraine, Central African Republic or wherever's next.
What soldier, knowing the demo was for Ranked Ballot, would fire on his fellows? What if any or all the Olympic winners had shown the sign for RB from the podium? RB will give the people a sufficiency of unity of spirit, vision, voice& action for all authentic purposes, but none in any extreme. Could A World-Wide Strike for True Democracy be far behind?
Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting_systems, http://www.fairvote.org/colleges-and-universities-using-instant-runoff-voting, http://www.fairvote.org/where-instant-runoff-is-used& facebook.com /preferentiality.
zoe morgan roman nomran sydney christian zee
facebook.com/preferentiality
***@gmail.com
***@yahoo.com
USA
Planet Earth

Mike D
2004-08-04 14:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by W***@kerrysucks.org
"The average age of the world's greatest
civilizations from the beginning of history, has
been about 200 years. During those 200 years,
these nations always progressed through the
Oh damn, I have been thinking about this since 9-11. All great societies
run their course over time. I have felt like our run as a great society
was nearing its end. I just hope I'm not around by the time we implode.

Mike
Dweezil Dwarftosser
2004-08-04 16:16:42 UTC
Permalink
All great societies run their course over time.
(Except, it seems, LBJs - which just goes on forever...)
I have felt like our run as a great society was nearing its end.
I just hope I'm not around by the time we implode.
They say that Rome didn't decline until they started
replacing the legions with foreign mercenaries.

Isn't that what Kerry has in mind with the UN?
Tom Bailey
2004-08-04 20:00:54 UTC
Permalink
From: Dweezil Dwarftosser
They say that Rome didn't decline until they started
replacing the legions with foreign mercenaries.
Isn't that what Kerry has in mind with the UN?
And isn't that what Bush started with his 'civilian contractors?' Peas in a
pod. But niether are going to be able to maintian their war much longewr
without a draft.

Tom Bailey
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