Discussion:
Lawyer for business dispute
(too old to reply)
i***@mindspring.com
2011-08-05 16:40:08 UTC
Permalink
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.

Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?

Dick
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2011-08-05 16:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.
Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?
Dick
I'll handle it for you. I'm registered at quite a few bars
around here.

Other than that - file pro se in small claims court.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the somnabitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

Pray for Obama : Psalms 109:8
i***@mindspring.com
2011-08-05 16:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Post by i***@mindspring.com
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.
Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?
Dick
I'll handle it for you. I'm registered at quite a few bars
around here.
Other than that - file pro se in small claims court.
The client is out of state.
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2011-08-06 00:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Post by i***@mindspring.com
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.
Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?
Dick
I'll handle it for you. I'm registered at quite a few bars
around here.
Other than that - file pro se in small claims court.
The client is out of state.
You're fucked. Get over it.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the somnabitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

Pray for Obama : Psalms 109:8
NotMe
2011-08-06 03:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by .***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
Post by i***@mindspring.com
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.
Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?
Dick
I'll handle it for you. I'm registered at quite a few bars
around here.
Other than that - file pro se in small claims court.
The client is out of state.
May not matter in small claims court.

Regardless your contact did not specify jurisdiction?
Trent J.
2011-08-06 04:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.
Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?
Dick
Lawyers are lazy gits with astronomical fees. You won't get shit for
$2k. Just start handling your interactions with clients more wisely
(i.e. demand retainers from them, do not hand over the "final key to
the goods" until final payment is made and on time, etc.) and protect
yourself from getting screwed.

The keys to successful freelance business....

1. Over-estimate and over-quote on timelines - but NEVER be late,
ever, and if something happens that forces you to be behind schedule,
do not charge more for it and be apologetic for delays.

2. Under-promise on the actual result they will get in the end.

3. Over-deliver on what they get in the end, focus on quality /
craftsmanship / perfectionism and the things that will ultimately
impact your reputation when it comes to word of mouth.

....cover those three points and you will do well.

You'll encounter countless minions of morons that will never take
things past #1 because they are impatient or whatever, but this will
free you up for a better quality set of clients (I don't mean suckers,
I mean quality clients that want quality work). Many of the ones that
balk at your initial offer will come crawling back later after someone
else fucks things up.
i***@mindspring.com
2011-08-06 16:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trent J.
Lawyers are lazy gits with astronomical fees. You won't get shit for
$2k. Just start handling your interactions with clients more wisely
(i.e. demand retainers from them, do not hand over the "final key to
the goods" until final payment is made and on time, etc.) and protect
yourself from getting screwed.
Not feasible in my field. Business is done with an electronic
handshake. That's the standard
Post by Trent J.
The keys to successful freelance business....
1. Over-estimate and over-quote on timelines - but NEVER be late,
ever, and if something happens that forces you to be behind schedule,
do not charge more for it and be apologetic for delays.
2. Under-promise on the actual result they will get in the end.
3. Over-deliver on what they get in the end, focus on quality /
craftsmanship / perfectionism and the things that will ultimately
impact your reputation when it comes to word of mouth.
....cover those three points and you will do well.
All good advice, but I've been doing well for over 20 years. With all
due humility, I'm recognized as a top expert in my field. This is the
first time in over 500 jobs that I've had such a problem.
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2011-08-06 19:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by Trent J.
Lawyers are lazy gits with astronomical fees. You won't get shit for
$2k. Just start handling your interactions with clients more wisely
(i.e. demand retainers from them, do not hand over the "final key to
the goods" until final payment is made and on time, etc.) and protect
yourself from getting screwed.
Not feasible in my field. Business is done with an electronic
handshake. That's the standard
Post by Trent J.
The keys to successful freelance business....
1. Over-estimate and over-quote on timelines - but NEVER be late,
ever, and if something happens that forces you to be behind schedule,
do not charge more for it and be apologetic for delays.
2. Under-promise on the actual result they will get in the end.
3. Over-deliver on what they get in the end, focus on quality /
craftsmanship / perfectionism and the things that will ultimately
impact your reputation when it comes to word of mouth.
....cover those three points and you will do well.
All good advice, but I've been doing well for over 20 years. With all
due humility, I'm recognized as a top expert in my field. This is the
first time in over 500 jobs that I've had such a problem.
Then eat it, learn, and move on.

'Cause you ain't gonna see a dime from it.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the somnabitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

Pray for Obama : Psalms 109:8
NotMe
2011-08-06 22:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by Trent J.
Lawyers are lazy gits with astronomical fees. You won't get shit for
$2k. Just start handling your interactions with clients more wisely
(i.e. demand retainers from them, do not hand over the "final key to
the goods" until final payment is made and on time, etc.) and protect
yourself from getting screwed.
Not feasible in my field. Business is done with an electronic
handshake. That's the standard
We've been in the IRP business for over 50 years and much, as in almost all,
of our current work is done remotely i.e. electronic hand shake (hint: a
signed fax contract is a valid contract in all courts in the USA). BTW the
work on all projects does not start unless and until I have the contact and
the deposit in hand ... no exceptions.

Another hint: if the client does not play by my rules we don't do business.
And yes I do miss a few deals but since 99.9% of those that won't have
proven to be either are a major hassle/won't pay I'm not missing much.
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by Trent J.
The keys to successful freelance business....
1. Over-estimate and over-quote on timelines - but NEVER be late,
ever, and if something happens that forces you to be behind schedule,
do not charge more for it and be apologetic for delays.
2. Under-promise on the actual result they will get in the end.
3. Over-deliver on what they get in the end, focus on quality /
craftsmanship / perfectionism and the things that will ultimately
impact your reputation when it comes to word of mouth.
....cover those three points and you will do well.
All good advice, but I've been doing well for over 20 years. With all
due humility, I'm recognized as a top expert in my field. This is the
first time in over 500 jobs that I've had such a problem.
Then park the experience as an expensive lesson then go forth and sin no
more.
WesD
2011-08-10 20:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Lawyers are lazy gits with astronomical fees.  You won't get shit for
$2k.  Just start handling your interactions with clients more wisely
(i.e. demand retainers from them, do not hand over the "final key to
the goods" until final payment is made and on time, etc.) and protect
yourself from getting screwed.
Not feasible in my field. Business is done with an electronic
handshake. That's the standard
The keys to successful freelance business....
1. Over-estimate and over-quote on timelines - but NEVER be late,
ever, and if something happens that forces you to be behind schedule,
do not charge more for it and be apologetic for delays.
2. Under-promise on the actual result they will get in the end.  
3. Over-deliver on what they get in the end, focus on  quality /
craftsmanship / perfectionism and the things that will ultimately
impact your reputation when it comes to word of mouth.
....cover those three points and you will do well.
All good advice, but I've been doing well for over 20 years. With all
due humility, I'm recognized as a top expert in my field. This is the
first time in over 500 jobs that I've had such a problem.
Sorry I don't know any less expensive lawyers.

This is the first time in 20 years the economy has been this bad. But
still 1 of 500 is a darn good track record.

I must agree with Paul that this is one to write off.

Unless of course you want to make an issue of this on principle and
not money then I say go for it and when the lawyer burns though 2K
with no results then write it off. Of course then you will be out 5K
then. Or if the lawyer actually gets the money then you will be out
2K.

Good Luck, Wes
i***@mindspring.com
2011-08-10 21:23:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by WesD
This is the first time in 20 years the economy has been this bad. But
still 1 of 500 is a darn good track record.
It wasn't a matter of economics. I did the work and he simply said
that he didn't like it and refused to pay.
Post by WesD
Unless of course you want to make an issue of this on principle and
not money then I say go for it and when the lawyer burns though 2K
with no results then write it off.
No, I just wanted advice on my best course of action. If I had any
hope at all of recovering, I know I had to at least write a demand
letter, for which I would need a lawyer, but I'm not investing $2k in
writing a letter. There is also a copyright issue and I wanted to be
sure he didn't use my work after refusing to pay for it.

In any event, I fired that client and immediately replaced him with a
much larger one who pays twice the rate.

Sometimes thing just work out.
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2011-08-10 22:27:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by WesD
This is the first time in 20 years the economy has been this bad. But
still 1 of 500 is a darn good track record.
It wasn't a matter of economics. I did the work and he simply said
that he didn't like it and refused to pay.
Post by WesD
Unless of course you want to make an issue of this on principle and
not money then I say go for it and when the lawyer burns though 2K
with no results then write it off.
No, I just wanted advice on my best course of action. If I had any
hope at all of recovering, I know I had to at least write a demand
letter, for which I would need a lawyer, but I'm not investing $2k in
writing a letter. There is also a copyright issue and I wanted to be
sure he didn't use my work after refusing to pay for it.
Keep in mind, you hold copyright by default if it is original
work. You need not register it, etc. Unless it was a 'work for
hire', in which case he owns it. In all cases guided by contract
terms and written rights assignments if any.

Getting past all that - if you have not assigned copyright to
him , then you own it. For issues regarding his distribution of it,
not his use of it, where you are then in a contract / breach of
contract ( yours or his ) dispute.
Post by i***@mindspring.com
In any event, I fired that client and immediately replaced him with a
much larger one who pays twice the rate.
Sometimes thing just work out.
So said the windshield to the bug.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the somnabitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

Pray for Obama : Psalms 109:8
.***@see_my_sig_for_address.com
2011-08-10 23:17:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
Post by WesD
This is the first time in 20 years the economy has been this bad. But
still 1 of 500 is a darn good track record.
It wasn't a matter of economics. I did the work and he simply said
that he didn't like it and refused to pay.
Oh and I think you said $3000 or $5000 or such ?

I work for remote clients routinely, and I won't even START a
small project like that without a payment agreement, which includes at
least 30 - 50 % up front.

Rare exception - if a client comes highly recommended and has
an emergency, I MIGHT start work today on the basis of taking their
word that the initial check is 'in the mail today'.

Even in that case, the money will be in my bank account before
they so much as see a prototype. And they will not get a fully
functional final build until the final bill is paid and in my bank.
Until then, they get only 'crippled' versions that will expire ( and
this is clearly understood at the outset, no suprises in either
direction ).

Of course, some customers you just don't need. I had one a
while ago - I had done a project for his large company maybe 12 years
previously, for maybe $ 50,000 total. It is still in their product
catalog today. I never had a bug report or complaint after final
delivery, including during the 1 year warranty period.

After ~ 12 years or so post-warranty, a new manager decided he
wanted some background colors changed ( he didn't like what his
predecessor had chosen ), and he want the security module re-written.
Said module in fact was not mine - they had hired another contractor
to write it back then, and all I did was hook the DLL with an API
call.

And, he wanted this all for free 'under warranty', and 'ASAP'
as in NOW. From a project that was delivered 12 years ago.

I explained to him the realities, and gave him a price for his
mods, and writing him a security module to replace the one they had
purchased from someone else back then, if he wanted.

Never heard from him again. Oh, well.
--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the somnabitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.

Pray for Obama : Psalms 109:8
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
2011-08-08 16:24:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by i***@mindspring.com
I have a dispute with a client for about $3,000. I have a lawyer that
I have used in the past (twice in the last 20 years) but he wants a
$2,000 retainer.
Can anyone recommend a Raleigh lawyer who deals in business disputes
but offers better rates?
Find someone who slept at a Holiday Inn.

--Tedward
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